"The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own ... You need to read" - C H Spurgeon.
"To fail to learn from the pulpit of the past is to impoverish that of the present" - Tony Sargent
Thursday 15 January 2009
Joseph Prince on the Purpose of the Law
"God gave the law for one purpose and that is by the law, the world would have the knowledge of sin and recognize their need for a Saviour".
Joseph Prince - "Destined To Reign" - Harrison House Publishers, Tulsa (2007) - (p16).
65 comments:
Enoch
said...
I would like Joseph Prince to ask his deaconess to step down. It is disgraceful thing for a woman to be teaching ,rebuking and correcting men in the position of a pastor/deaconess (call it what you like) I believe when he gets the courage to do this- I pray God give him even greater revelation about the purpose of the Law May it be so!. I am hoping the best for you Prince and for sincere people at New Creation church. May God kick out the rich oppressors from that place.
I do not agree to joseph prince sermons which are generally about prosperity gospel.
The retired first Anglican Archbishop of Southeast Asia, Bishop Dr Moses Tay said that "keeping law and grace together has always been a major challenge for the Church" and that "the ministry of Pastor Prince, together with that of all the other pastors, are necessary to reconcile the two dimensions of faith". However, he also highlighted that "there was a danger of Christians veering to the extreme of simplistic grace and committing the error of dichotomising the period before the cross and that after and throwing everything of the former overboard."
Enoch, God is not a respective of persons. Who are you to judge someone elses servant? Instead pray that God will deliver you from a prideful reglious spirit. You need to focus on your relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ. God chooses to minister through whoever He wills and he doesn't not have to ask man's opinion. I considered disgraceful is a person who professing Christ and lives as the word. That lukewarm christian will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If a woman takes an authority position in a church over men and trains men in righteousness, she is committing sin and causing others to sin. In a similar way if men and women switch roles in a household the couple is committing sin. The scripture teaches "Wives submit to your husbands and husbands love your wives" but man is head of woman. If you put a woman teacher in the church then you are destroying family life and God's plan for families. Jesus is a man, the apostles are men, elders are men and deacons are men. You will never ever find a woman in the scripture taking authority over men in teaching
Women are to support men, not to teach and have authority over them which is the spirit of Jezebel. If women understand this, they will receive a reward. Husbands must be leaders but love their wives. Children obey your parents. Honour your Father (first) then you mother (second) and the promise is you will have long life. The commandment is not honour your mother then your father. God is a God of order and not confusion. Women pastors/deacons are causing people to commit fornication.
I pray Michele whoever you are, that you will be slow to speak about these matters. Come prayerfully before God and ask him to give you faith to believe what the scripture teaches about women. Find aged christian women full of love, faith and good deeds and a happy marriage and learn from them about the secret of the Lord.
I knew a sister who had attended New Creation Church. She had a terminal illness but was a very loving christian- probably one of the most loving christians I have ever known, a great example of Christ's disciple. Before she died she listened to lots of tapes from New Creation about healing and all the testimonies of miracles. She had even walked to the front to receive healing when supposedly God was healing? She had a great respect for New Creation and believed what they taught was true about healing. On her deathbed she suffered so terribly with unbearable pain for weeks and she thought she was condemned because God was not healing her. She thought "Either God was a liar or the teachers of Gods word had deceived her" She could not believe spiritual teachers would deceive anyone and so she died in complete condemnation even believing that God hated and abandoned her when those around her who have faith know that its not true. Since seeing that, some people have a disgust for new creation and their teaching on healing. People who teach that everyone must be healed all the time are deceived. The body is important but God did not heal the theif on the cross. He gave him faith and assurance of eternal life. It was the blasphemers who were saying "If you are the Son of God why can't you get yourself down off that cross"... Many are now being led to disobey the teachings of Christ in Matthew 25;31 and onwards.
I do not know any of you or even what country you are from but I feel I need to say that as a woman I know in my heart that I can be used as tool for God as well as any person can be and I believe that God loves us all enough that we can come before him as our own person without race gender or any other earthy label that we may have put upon ourselves.
I will submit to the will of God and yes even to a husband when I have one but I will not submit to the will of any man just because he is a man and I do not believe that the teachings of a man are any more valuable than that of a woman's. When you are placing value on the ministry of any person based on that person and the nature of their flesh before placing value in the source of that revelation itself (God) I believe you are simply highlighting your own pride and proclaiming your knowledge above God's own works. I also believe in the importance of maintaining the correct structure in a family however our relationship with God and his love for us is not bound by those same restrictions and he allows his light and blessings to shine on All who accept him as Christ. That is what I believe he has put in my heart.
the recent poster "anonymous" is a woman who wants to teach others but she herself teaches things that are against the commandments of the Lord Jesus who forbids women to teach or have authority over men. She herself is breaking God's commandments and if you knew her in real life she is probably either divorced or has a broken marriage with a weak husband. The fruit of unbelief in the Lord's teaching is divorce and broken marriages. Why do people claim that they believe the Lord but they do not do what he commands?
I met some of New Creation people at a party. Those people were not interested in my relationship with God but more about money. They had someone call me up to try and sell insurance/assurance to me and I guess it is probably a hint that there are leaders who have personal interests who view church folk as financial objects. I am sorry for "Concerned Christian's" friends. I pray God will help those people who have been hurt by evil persons in New Creation. I find its best not to join a formal church these days but to find good and sincere christian people who you can contact and share with one another i.e. small groups to build each other up. Pray for one another and hold each other up, even if your group is small. Look for people who have the fruits of the Spirit i.e. LOVE and TRUTH and stay away from people who want to exploit others for financial gain. Those people who do those things are going to know about tribulation and anguish sooner or later.
Let me encourage everyone following the Lord with the words of the apostle Paul to the Romans Chapter 2.
To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger
Jesus Christ teaches his disciples to DO GOOD. Don't let anyone deceive you with false doctrine which prevents you from desiring to HUNGER AND THIRST for righteousness which you do not yet possess. If you believe you have Righteousness when you DO NOT have GOOD DEEDS/RIGHTEOUSNESS .. then James prophesys to you.,,,
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. (JAMES 5:1)
Jesus Christ has not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill. The fulfillment of the law is seen in love for your neighbour. Your neighbour is NOT people who go to the same church as you, it is your neighbour of any religion (read the good samaritan parable). If you believe that you are saved because someone told you that Jesus Christ has taken all your sins but you find that you do not love people who are outside your religion, then you are deceived and need to get away from people who preach that the law is not relevant to you. They are stealing your inheritance and will prevent you from receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. In fact, if you don't love the people who are not part of your religion, you are under the law and not under grace and your heart is going to become harder and you and your church will become more selfish and unbelieving. Is that is what is happening to New Creation church? Come to God and ask Him!
I think every one is falling prey to their own attitudes,where is the brotherly & sisterly bond in Christ our Lord, yes , there are False prophets in every church, People who judge instead of Love, people who claim to be of Christ, but lack the appearance therof. Yes, they are the Pharisee's of this hour. ..we must not react in anger & judgment,Let's not bicker amongst ourselves, for then we become as sad as the person who knows not God. Enoch, take your frustrations to the elders of the church and have them pray over this situation. ..and judge not the necessity of the woman in God's eyes. For, if God annoints a woman to go forth in his presence, is that not a good thing, since we all Love God? If this woman is falsely rebuking the place of the man, surely she will and should be removed from her place of calling. Love one another as Christ loved us.+++
I never said God cannot anoint a woman. Have you never read that Sarah became beautiful by submitting to her husband? If a woman is annointed, she will be a daughter of Sarah. A daughter of Sarah will not reject the example Sarah has left behind. Neither will she want to commit the same sin that Eve committed.
Why do you twist my words? The law of Moses and the prophets and the new testament forbids a woman to have authority over men in the things of God. If you knowingly reject what the word teaches, you will end up destroying families and will be held responsible for the harm you have done.
I fear God more than you and your advice. Jesus Christ teaches the way of salvation and he teaches that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees we will in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven. If you want to teach people to tolerate Pharisees or tolerate "that woman Jezebel" that is your decision. As a brother I have testified to what I believe is right. If I don't testify to you then your blood is on my hands. I have spoken what the scripture teaches about women in the church. Now it is up to you to come to God yourself and seek wisdom on these things.
Furthermore. If someone believes in spiritual gifts and the writings of Paul to the Corinthians. They should earnestly desire spiritual gifts. But speaking from both sides of our mouth is a sin. Teaching people 1 Corinthians 12-14 and rejecting the words of the apostle Paul is hypocrisy. It is picking and choosing what you like from the bible and want you don't. How can you be a faithful minister of the word if you reject the apostle's teaching because you fear what everyone else is teaching and doing above what Christ's apostle's teach.
1 Corinthians 14:34
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
As for Galatians 3:28. The book of Galatians is written by a man. You will never find a book in the bible written by a woman. Jesus Christ is not a woman but a man. Man is made in the image of God and woman in the image of man.
All the godly women you find in holy scripture never rebuke, correct or train men of God. The holy women are examples of blessed women among women. A woman cannot bear the fruit of the womb (Jesus) if she is disobedient to God commandments. She must listen to Adam (submit to her husband in all things) unless she wants to fall under condemnation along with all the women in the churches who have lost their faith and are now pretending to be prophetesses. A true prophetess will teach younger women to be good houswives and submit to their husbands... in the presence of angels she testifies that she is subject to her husband (her head) She is the truly spiritual woman and very precious in the sight of God.
while I was still searching but not finding--I found one [upright] man among a thousand, but not one [upright] woman among them all. Ecclesiastes 7:28
If you are a woman and your heart is pricked by these words. Read the new testament epistles of Paul and Peter. Submit to your husband in all things as to the LORD. Learn obedience through what you suffer and you will experience the fears and confusion you have start to melt away. You will be given eye salve and healing through the Spirit of God.
Every man praying or prophesying, having the head covered, doth dishonour his head
If a man speaks in the church and does not show the world that he is head of his household he dishonours his own head. He dishonours himself. These men are falling into sexual immorality. These men love to counsel woman and be adored by women who are not their wives. They are encouraging women to become head of the household whether in churches or homes. These men never speak the words that Christ gave to Paul the apostle " I forbid a woman to teach or have authority over a man" and when they counsel women they side with the woman and commit sexual immorality with her. They never teach women that they learn obedience/increased faith by suffering for righteousness sake. The woman submits to the husband not because the husband is necessarily correct but because of her REVERENCE FOR CHRIST .Paul the apostle did not teach pastors to commit sexual immorality by appointing women pastors or deaconesses. Paul the apostle is greater than your pastor. In the church hierachy is first apostles THEN prophets. Listen to the living apostle before your pastor. DECIDE FOR YOURSELVES if the apostle Paul is mightier than your pastor or if your pastor is greater than the apostle Paul. The apostle Paul bears the marks of Jesus. The apostle advises the women as follows. 1 Cor 14:35
and if they wish to learn anything, at home their own husbands let them question, for it is a shame to women to speak in an assembly.
1 Cor 11:5
and every woman praying or prophesying with the head uncovered, doth dishonour her own head, for it is one and the same thing with her being shaven,
If you are a beautiful woman in the sight of God he will see you with lovely flowing hair but if you reject his teaching God sees you as a disgrace , as a bald woman. You may fool everyone and have outward braided hair, fake pearls of wisdom and expensive clothes but actually you are bald and naked in the sight of God and his holy angels. The men who join you by submitting to you and your so called gift of prophecy are now under a curse. They ministers become weak and will end up persecuting the men who teach righteousness, They fall under the yeast of Herod. Jesus said "BEWARE OF THE YEAST OF HEROD".. Go and read in the gospels what kind of weakness Herod had because he allowed a young girl to usurp his authority. Look what he did to God's great prophet who brought the Spirit of Elijah.
Christ is come to redeem us from the curse.
LET HIM WHO HAS EARS HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CHURCHES.
HEAR O ISRAEL.
Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds
Do not live in unbelief. Do not deceive yourselves. If you love your wife and families, then receive Paul the apostle as a truthful minister of the gospel.
You MALE genders are crazy,,, has the holy spirit convicted you of such bigotry ? It will be a lie !
Even in the Jewish history, they have JUDGES who are female. Remember DEBORAH ? Priestess like Elizabeth...If the Jewish tribes which are patriachal can submit to God's nomination of a woman JUDGE, what makes you think God cannot use women leaders nowadays ?
God is a God whose name is I AM. He evolves, he is in control of the past and of the future. He has total freedom to do whatever he wants and no one should put God in a box and frame it with history.
He wrote his-story...in the past and in the present and in the future however he wants.
God's principles of love, of truth and righteousness will not change. This is the unchanging God.
All other things, please...take a look at the world God made and the advances he allowed in medicine, in technology etc..You think we made all these with him ?..tell me if he not creative ! Our God is a master artist, scientist ...CREATOR !
Here is where the bible talks about the patriarchs. The Apostle Paul is apostle to the Gentiles and wishes them to enjoy the promise of the Father. Whoever accepts his teaching, accepts Christ.
1 Peter 3 1Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. 7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
Will those who fear God and believe what the scripture says be condemned by God for having reverence and wanting to follow the example of the apostle Paul who has apostolic power to either build up or destroy? If Jesus teaches that we will have a great reward in heaven for righteousness sake, is following apostolic utterances righteousness? Or is it unrighteousness ? Should we persecute and reject the apostle Paul and those who hold his teachings as sacred? Notice at the end of these scriptures Paul tells us it is the LORD's command.
1 Cor 14. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored
Abraham is a Father to many nations. He is not a girl in a skirt overseeing men. I want to obey the Lord's commandments and follow the example of Abraham Romans 4:12 and teach women to follow the example of Sarah 1 Peter 3:6
If you love people, you will not want women to miscarriage and have problems with childbirth. You will not want to have the blood of unborn children on your hands. You decide how serious this is. Here is what the word of God says to us through 1 Timothy
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Those who have allowed women to usurp the authority of men of God have committed murder. You have murdered innocent children, destroyed families and through your hypocrisy have turned upside down the order God has given for families. But God is merciful and full of grace and you can come to him to be forgiven of your sins. Come to him today with a truly sorrowful heart for partaking in wickedness.
If you are one who did not know what the apostle teaches and now that you know the scripture .. receive the apostles of Jesus Christ as greater authority than prophets . In the church hierachy it is first apostles, then prophets.
If you believe the Apostles are dead and have no say in church matters, then you deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ who is alive as are his apostles and as are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
For those who find repentance may God use you mightily to bind up wounds in your own families and the families of others. Peace be with you all.
Having said all the above , I feel that spiritually I have been unfair to Joseph. So, I also want to add as a final comment that I acknowledge that Joseph Prince is one of the most anointed spiritual men of faith I have ever met. God knows our hearts and he knows who loves him as a great brother in Christ and who does not.
Over the last few weeks I have decided to stop blogging like this simply because it is not face to face with the people and is unfair because if I was in his position I would not want people to do that to me. I guess my own sin is revealed and I repent before God and the church.
Enoch, I've read enough of all you lets demote and church women beneath us because we're males. Let me tell you something. God made Eve out of Adams rib. Not out of his feet for her to be crushed under him. Not out of his head to rule over him. Out of his side to be equal with him. Since you sat here and preached about the importance of the order God did things in I am sure you can agree with me on that. Women are not a lesser creation than man. They can be anointed by God to have leadership roles and to pastor and teach. Have you not read the old testament? Ruth, Deborah, Esther? Have you forgot about them? It is of the Enemy for you to preach that women be held down and put beneath men.
actually enoch you remind me of the pharisee that brought the adulteress woman before Jesus asking what to do with her. Caught her in the act, but did nothing with the man. She couldn't have committed adultery on her own, yet they left the man. Sounds like you, only attacking women. Man can do no wrong, unless he lets a woman preach in his church right? You're a sad little man Enoch.
Dear Enoch, Points to ponder: 1. Paul the apostle says "I forbid a woman to teach or have authority over a man" Key word being "I". It does not say God forbids. 2. There is a passage where Paul's teachings completely contradicts what Jesus teaches. Jesus in Matthew 6:5-6 and Paul in I Timothy 2:8. Why? Because Paul (who was a converted Jew) was teaching converted Jews and was speaking to them in a way that was acceptable to them. This does not mean that Paul was never speaking for the Lord but if you read carefully he lets you know when it's his opinion, not God sent. It's not hypocrasy, it's speaking in a language where you will be understood. 3. And as was already stated, women are to cleave to their husband, not every man. 4.Jesus was God taught while on earth and Jesus had the ability to recognize the truth when he heard it. One of the TRUTHS opened to Jesus was through a woman: Mt 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Mt 15:25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. Mt 15:26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.” Mt 15:27 “Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.” Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour. Jesus knew in that moment he was here for everyone, not just the children of Israel. 5. Romans 14:1 says: Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
The question to a Christian might be are we Jewish? Are we still under Law or are we under Grace? If not a converted Jew but a Gentile, we were never truly under the Law. As long as a woman has the permission of her husband to preach or teach she is still submitting to the authority of her husband. Last I would like to tell you I prophesy, I interpert dreams but I have to do it with my head covered (in humility, not from me)or through pride (with the vanity of lovely flowing hair) it will come to naught. By the way Enoch, Thank you and Thank God because through you God has opened my eyes as to why no one ever listens to "me" when I prophesize. A few of the prophecies made 2 deaths, 1 heartache and one impending car accident. Peace Be on this House, Alethea. May God bless you all, in Jesus' name!
Sola Scriptura and Biblical fundamentalism is very dangerous. It is misleading and can lead to discouragement and confusion. Always remember, to read within context and with the proper interpretation and Biblical exegesis. God bless everyone.
In Acts 18:24-28, an important evangelist in Ephesus named Apollos is mentioned as one who "taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the Way of God to him more accurately." Priscilla and Aquila were among the earliest known teachers of Christian theology.
In 1 Corinthians 16:19, Paul passes on the greetings of Priscilla and Aquila to their friends in Corinth, indicating that the couple were in his company. Paul founded the church in Corinth[citation needed]; including their greetings implies that Priscilla and Aquila were also involved in the founding of that church. Since 1 Corinthians discusses a crisis deriving from a conflict between the followers of Apollos and the followers of Cephas (possibly the apostle Peter), it can be inferred that Apollos accompanied Priscilla and Aquila when they returned to Corinth. This happened before 54, when Claudius died and the expulsion of the Jews from Rome was lifted.
In Romans 16:3-4, thought to have been written in 56 or 57, Paul sends his greetings to Priscilla and Aquila and notes that both of them "risked their necks" to save Paul's life. (both posts on Priscilla taken from wiki)
Acts 18:26: He (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
They have been called the most famous couple in the Christian Bible since they are mentioned seven times, always as a couple and never individually. Of those seven times, five times Priscilla's name is mentioned first. According to the account in Acts, they corrected the faith of Apollos, an important preacher of the period.
I was hoping that whoever owns this blog would take down my comments as I no longer wish to write anonymously about people but rather tell people face to face. The way I started off is not wise. I feel now it is more manly to confront others face to face on these matters and avoiding saying things behind people's backs . It is wrong to gossip (part of gossip is not confronting the person face to face) and is not a manly thing to do but it a weakness mainly of women and since I have been complaining about silly women, I don't want to become one myself. I admit I have been a hypocrite on this blog. More power to you all and especially Joseph Prince.
------------------------- If we have been clothed in Christ, there is really no male or female, according to Galatians above. Yes, at a human level, males and females are different with different functions... God values them all as his precious creation. As women can be silly, so can men. Not all males have the same level of intelligence in the natural. It is a sin to be sexist and preach it as the ultimate in God's unchanging truths. Of all the gifts that God gave to humans, they all pass or fade away in time, but LOVE is the greatest and will always remain. Love is greater than intelligence or silliness or gender.
I am so sorry Enoch, I did not want to come across like I was condemning you and for that I apologize. The problem with not talking to a person face to face is that we can't see each other's sincerity and care. I don't know what you have had to deal with through your journey so again I'm sorry. I have one posting here under anonymous but I did sign it at the bottom of my posting.
@ ENOCH- YOU ARE DISGUSTING AND MISGUIDED MAN. You have NO IDEA who Christ is or what the Word of God is all about. You and almost everyone on this board are bound by falsities. You are who Jesus was talking about when he said "Not all that say Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven"
Calling woman disgraceful. Half of his ministry was about woman and their freedom.
Enoch, You are a complete moron. I don't even know where to begin answering your error, with respect to women in leadership. So what I would strongly suggest that you actually listen to Pastor Prince and I promise your attitude will change.
All the negative remarks here about New Creation Church are FALSE. It's not a church that goes after money although in every church there are people who are still not producing the fruit of the Spirit. Of course, not everybody walks at the same pace when it comes to faith. But to label NCC as a church that is only concerned about money is totally wrong! And to that person who said that his/her friend died unhealed and feeling condemned, then the problem was with her, not Pastor PRince nor any of his teachings. There was soemthing wrong with the way she interpreted the gospel.
I've been a member of NCC for almost 4yrs now since I worked in Siingapore and Pastor Prince message of GRACE has completely freed me from the bondage of sin and it has enabled me to walk righteously by the grace of God. Been to other church before where law was preached more and I just felt inadequate, more condemned. Only the gospel of grace has truly set me free and has enabled me to die from my sins. Thank God he gave us Pastor Prince to preach His gospel of grace!
Sorry guys I will have to side with Enoch. He has perfectly and inductively presented the patriarchs views and the apostle Paul's view in terms of men's headship.
As a Psychologist working among 12 prisons in my country I have acknowledged the relevancy of the wisdom of the scriptures. The issue on men's headship is an issue not only known in our faith but known in our cultures (this knowledge was dispersed at the tower of babel). Thats why Enoch was accurate in saying that women is the glory of men....in the sense that her glory is projected through her submission to him. Whereas men's glory is in God. His glory projected by the mandate to lead the extension of his kingdom on earth. This has nothing to do with sexism. Through the male species God has established his authority on earth (headship). Through the female species he teaches submission to his authority which he has given to the men (which is God's and not the men's to flaunt)
Every culture on this earth knows this fact. Lets look at Titus 2:4b-5.Older women to teach younger women to submit to their husbands.....That the word of God may not be blasphemed among the ungodly (the ungodly understands this principle.
Check this quotation out.... “The practical worth of a religion is not unfairly estimated by its effects on the lives of those who profess it. If the observed effect of the Gospel were to make women worse wives, it would not commend it to the heathen.” (White)
Therefore as I said earlier headship is relevant to my work where I have seen families and churches heal when women and men of God have led lives that portrayed the roles God has given them. When men lead they pronounce the authority of God to the ungodly that there is a authority from heaven that will one day pronounce Godly judgement on all ungodliness on earth. When women submit they reaffirm Jesus ministry to submit (unlike Satan) to his father's authority in which we experience the richness of Grace where he voluntary places his body on the line for our sake.
We now know in Psychology the damage and consequences when headship is removed from any society and where women under this headships become vulnerable when their covering is removed. E.g Research shows that men involved in enticing young females in joining the sex trade and human trafficking choose only a particular type of girl..." A girl who has no father" is vulnerable to men's advances portraying a father like figure.
So please it is important to listen to the apostle Paul as he continues to hammer away with creating a Holy Community of believers that will shed light on unbelievers by the way we have our family. Most women who hate the idea of submission are usually lonely and bitter while men who abuse their authority without love are frustrated and angry with the world.There is so much written by Paul on headship that we can't just dispose of because we live in a modern time where we believe and misrepresent the idea that equality even refers to the different office that God has given through our sexes.
In closing, a Christians worldview should always be apposed to that of the world. So if headship is not popular....then we must be heading in the right direction...
Women are one of the greatest teachers. The car your driving may have just been built by a woman! Better yet your heart surgeon might just be a woman.If it wasn't for the woman the man who calls himself our Savior would not be your Savior.Thank her for giving birth to you! She must of taught you something..God bless and may he have Mercy on me. Sign Mary and no the mother of JESUS. Just Mary
God sinned in the Garden first which why he came in the flesh to destroy the works of his creation flesh.He created sin the serpent which gave birth to you and I. For Jesus to redeem us back to God.Not sure why only he knows his actions.No man or woman can say they know God. Only the son can reveal that. Sin came from creation please let us not give rebirth to eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. So help me God that HE knows me. Who does God portray himself to be. For He himself as he or she.It is written let us make man in our image male and female let us make him. HIM is who knows all things.God bless Amen. Mary
Did your Mother teach you how to fornicate. Again I say GOD creates all things.Clean and unclean if there is one spirit that gives many gifts all from the same spirit. Which spirit gave Adam the gift of breath.?Better yet which spirit saif I put before you cursing and blessing? Must be the same spirit which was in darkness and said Let there be light. The same spirit that created the serpent which influenced the woman to share with her husband is the same who created Jesus. He comes from a sinful nation. His whole family. Which is exactly what she the female still is doing. Man has the same free will that women have.
I don't believe she died in condemnation. She was in a rest with Jesus. God knows who caused her to think that way. It is not a seed which Jesus watered. She was not being condemned. God has mercy on whom ever he has Mercy.Grace is grace. Mercy is Mercy.Her Grace is in Heaven!
It is unfortunate that in this day and age with so many teaching tools and churches on every corner there are still some that are the blind leading the blind. The bible must be taking in context in every book, chapter and verse. To say that a woman cannot preach or teach is absurd and would make the bible itself a lie. It was to the Corinthians. To say that my neighbor does not allow his daughter to cut the grass so I and all our other neighbors should not allow our daughters to cut grass is basically what you are saying. So then you must be on the weekends killing witches because the bible says dont suffer them to live. Hope your son never disrespected you because you would be charged with murder right now. You cannot take certain scriptures and wear them about your neck and ignore clothing yourself with others. If God could use a donkey to talk,he can use a women. If the rocks can be made to cry out for Christ, then unless we are nothing in Gods eyes then I am sure a woman can proclaim as well. There are many examples of biblical women God used given by many here and I hope you are not only reading but listening. To those that called you names because of your misguided opinion, shame on you. Christ said with loving kindness has he drawn us and with the same we should draw others. I pray you all blessings and peace on this controversial subject, so long debated and forever will be. God bless. Pastor Laura
Wow! Have we really come down to this? Even Peter said that our "brother Paul" wrote things that were sometimes hard to understand. I must confess that some of the things that Paul wrote about leave me confused, but this I know: he had a revelation of our heavenly Father's unmerited favor that few, if any, of the other apostles of his day shared. If Paul were here,in the flesh, today, I find it very hard to believe that he would be condemning Joyce Meyers or any other Holy Spirit filled child of the most high, thrice holy God, who happens to be of the female persuasion, who is actively and ardently allowing the Holy Spirit to use them as vessels to successfully build the kingdom, reconcile relationships, exhort the body, edify the body, admonish the body,etc...etc! I say "judge a tree by it's fruits", and "thank God" for all of my sisters in Christ, and "hallelujah" for all my sisters in Christ who operate in the gifts of the Spirit rather than surrender to a spirit of fear! I can hear Jesus now, talking to Joyce Meyers, at the judgment seat, "shame on you young lady! How dare you allow my Spirit to lead thousand of sheep to me! No rewards for you! Now go to your room without supper!"
This is for Mary. I know that you believe that God sinned in the garden, but believe me, "God doesn't sin!" Jesus knew no son (2Cor. 5:21). God's creations, on the other hand, seem to have a knack for it. Free choice has always been the avenue from which sin has entered. Satan had a choice, and Adam had a choice...God neither sinned, nor created sin, rather, He created beings who chose to sin. Have you received God's free gift of righteousness by confessing Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Do you believe that He exchanged places with you on the cross, that all of your sins were judged, condemned and punished in Him on the cross? Have you committed your life to Him as your King, Savior and Lord? If you answered yes to these questions, then you have all the mercy from your heavenly Abba that you will ever need! You can have absolute boldness as you go to the day of judgment, because "as Jesus is, so are you in this world" (1John 4:17). His mercy sent Jesus to us. His righteousness punished our sins in Jesus on the cross. His grace saved us. Hallelujah!!!
to all who take pleasure in lambasting Pastor Prince: False teachers of the gospel have one thing in common...they all tend to de-deify Jesus Christ and minimize His amazing grace. The one thing that pastor Prince never does is de-deify Jesus Christ! I don't think I have heard anyone glorify God by exalting Jesus as much as Joseph Prince does. Is He spot on 100% of the time? Propably not. Who is? Joseph is the righteousness of God, but he is not God...just ask him, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you so. My two cents says he's right the vast majority of the time. The fact that he sees Jesus as the perfect sacrifice, and His work as a "finished work", instead of seeing Jesus as just a "glorified goat" is fine by me. The fact that he believes that being "Christ occupied" and operating in the "newness of the Spirit" is more effective than being "self occupied in the "oldness of the letter" by focusing on "the ministry of death and condemnation" is fine by me as well. The fact he spends most of his time revealing "the glory of the Lord to us so that we might be transformed into the same image from glory to glory as by the Holy Spirit" is ok by me too! Come to think of it, the fact that my life has changed so radically for Christ because of his teachings is down right awesome. Thank you pastor Prince for not being ashamed of the gospel of God's unmerited favor and for realizing that it is the " power of God to salvation for everyone who believes".
I wish Enoch would shut up. He doesn't know or understand the scriptures and he is a mysogynist. His condescending and disrespectful attitudes toward women are disgusting.
I wish Enoch would shut up. He doesn't know or understand the scriptures and he is a mysogynist. His condescending and disrespectful attitudes toward women are disgusting.
Enoch is a modern day Pharisee, if you're always looking at the unlawful "MAT" that people carries around, you will miss out on God's all encompassing love. And I don't understand the hate on "prosperity" when in heaven you'll be walking on STREETS OF GOLD.
Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the LAW FORBIDS you to carry your mat.” But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”
Jesus said to him, “If I want him to stay alive until I come [again], WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? YOU FOLLOW ME!”
Jesus DID say that many false teachers will come forth in His Name and will show "signs & wonders". Many of these will try to deceive even the very elect. Joseph Prince is not faulty. Its what he preaches that falls short. Divine Grace is universal to everyone on Earth. Unconditional Love has NO barriers and no departments. Christ loves the devout Hindu & Buddhist as much as the devout Christian for example. All people are created in God's Image. Not Christians only. J.Prince is not error free. He too is human like everybody else.
65 comments:
I would like Joseph Prince to ask his deaconess to step down. It is disgraceful thing for a woman to be teaching ,rebuking and correcting men in the position of a pastor/deaconess (call it what you like) I believe when he gets the courage to do this- I pray God give him even greater revelation about the purpose of the Law May it be so!. I am hoping the best for you Prince and for sincere people at New Creation church. May God kick out the rich oppressors from that place.
I do not agree to joseph prince sermons which are generally about prosperity gospel.
The retired first Anglican Archbishop of Southeast Asia, Bishop Dr Moses Tay said that "keeping law and grace together has always been a major challenge for the Church" and that "the ministry of Pastor Prince, together with that of all the other pastors, are necessary to reconcile the two dimensions of faith". However, he also highlighted that "there was a danger of Christians veering to the extreme of simplistic grace and committing the error of dichotomising the period before the cross and that after and throwing everything of the former overboard."
Enoch, I'd like to point out that you are a very insecure man, and should think before you speak.
Enoch, God is not a respective of persons. Who are you to judge someone elses servant? Instead pray that God will deliver you from a prideful reglious spirit. You need to focus on your relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ. God chooses to minister through whoever He wills and he doesn't not have to ask man's opinion. I considered disgraceful is a person who professing Christ and lives as the word. That lukewarm christian will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If a woman takes an authority position in a church over men and trains men in righteousness, she is committing sin and causing others to sin. In a similar way if men and women switch roles in a household the couple is committing sin.
The scripture teaches "Wives submit to your husbands and husbands love your wives" but man is head of woman. If you put a woman teacher in the church then you are destroying family life and God's plan for families.
Jesus is a man, the apostles are men, elders are men and deacons are men. You will never ever find a woman in the scripture taking authority over men in teaching
Women are to support men, not to teach and have authority over them which is the spirit of Jezebel. If women understand this, they will receive a reward. Husbands must be leaders but love their wives. Children obey your parents. Honour your Father (first) then you mother (second) and the promise is you will have long life. The commandment is not honour your mother then your father. God is a God of order and not confusion. Women pastors/deacons are causing people to commit fornication.
I pray Michele whoever you are, that you will be slow to speak about these matters. Come prayerfully before God and ask him to give you faith to believe what the scripture teaches about women. Find aged christian women full of love, faith and good deeds and a happy marriage and learn from them about the secret of the Lord.
I knew a sister who had attended New Creation Church. She had a terminal illness but was a very loving christian- probably one of the most loving christians I have ever known, a great example of Christ's disciple. Before she died she listened to lots of tapes from New Creation about healing and all the testimonies of miracles. She had even walked to the front to receive healing when supposedly God was healing?
She had a great respect for New Creation and believed what they taught was true about healing. On her deathbed she suffered so terribly with unbearable pain for weeks and she thought she was condemned because God was not healing her. She thought "Either God was a liar or the teachers of Gods word had deceived her"
She could not believe spiritual teachers would deceive anyone and so she died in complete condemnation even believing that God hated and abandoned her when those around her who have faith know that its not true. Since seeing that, some people have a disgust for new creation and their teaching on healing. People who teach that everyone must be healed all the time are deceived. The body is important but God did not heal the theif on the cross. He gave him faith and assurance of eternal life. It was the blasphemers who were saying "If you are the Son of God why can't you get yourself down off that cross"... Many are now being led to disobey the teachings of Christ in Matthew 25;31 and onwards.
I do not know any of you or even what country you are from but I feel I need to say that as a woman I know in my heart that I can be used as tool for God as well as any person can be and I believe that God loves us all enough that we can come before him as our own person without race gender or any other earthy label that we may have put upon ourselves.
I will submit to the will of God and yes even to a husband when I have one but I will not submit to the will of any man just because he is a man and I do not believe that the teachings of a man are any more valuable than that of a woman's. When you are placing value on the ministry of any person based on that person and the nature of their flesh before placing value in the source of that revelation itself (God) I believe you are simply highlighting your own pride and proclaiming your knowledge above God's own works.
I also believe in the importance of maintaining the correct structure in a family however our relationship with God and his love for us is not bound by those same restrictions and he allows his light and blessings to shine on All who accept him as Christ. That is what I believe he has put in my heart.
the recent poster "anonymous" is a woman who wants to teach others but she herself teaches things that are against the commandments of the Lord Jesus who forbids women to teach or have authority over men. She herself is breaking God's commandments and if you knew her in real life she is probably either divorced or has a broken marriage with a weak husband.
The fruit of unbelief in the Lord's teaching is divorce and broken marriages. Why do people claim that they believe the Lord but they do not do what he commands?
I met some of New Creation people at a party. Those people were not interested in my relationship with God but more about money. They had someone call me up to try and sell insurance/assurance to me and I guess it is probably a hint that there are leaders who have personal interests who view church folk as financial objects. I am sorry for "Concerned Christian's" friends. I pray God will help those people who have been hurt by evil persons in New Creation. I find its best not to join a formal church these days but to find good and sincere christian people who you can contact and share with one another i.e. small groups to build each other up. Pray for one another and hold each other up, even if your group is small. Look for people who have the fruits of the Spirit i.e. LOVE and TRUTH and stay away from people who want to exploit others for financial gain. Those people who do those things are going to know about tribulation and anguish sooner or later.
Let me encourage everyone following the Lord with the words of the apostle Paul to the Romans Chapter 2.
To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger
Jesus Christ teaches his disciples to DO GOOD. Don't let anyone deceive you with false doctrine which prevents you from desiring to HUNGER AND THIRST for righteousness which you do not yet possess. If you believe you have Righteousness when you DO NOT have GOOD DEEDS/RIGHTEOUSNESS .. then James prophesys to you.,,,
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. (JAMES 5:1)
Jesus Christ has not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill. The fulfillment of the law is seen in love for your neighbour. Your neighbour is NOT people who go to the same church as you, it is your neighbour of any religion (read the good samaritan parable). If you believe that you are saved because someone told you that Jesus Christ has taken all your sins but you find that you do not love people who are outside your religion, then you are deceived and need to get away from people who preach that the law is not relevant to you. They are stealing your inheritance and will prevent you from receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. In fact, if you don't love the people who are not part of your religion, you are under the law and not under grace and your heart is going to become harder and you and your church will become more selfish and unbelieving. Is that is what is happening to New Creation church? Come to God and ask Him!
I think every one is falling prey to their own attitudes,where is the brotherly & sisterly bond in Christ our Lord,
yes , there are False prophets in every church, People who judge instead of Love, people who claim to be of Christ, but lack the appearance therof.
Yes, they are the Pharisee's of this hour.
..we must not react in anger & judgment,Let's not bicker amongst ourselves, for then we become as sad as the person who knows not God.
Enoch, take your frustrations to the elders of the church and have them pray over this situation.
..and judge not the necessity of the woman in God's eyes.
For, if God annoints a woman to go forth in his presence, is that not a good thing, since we all Love God?
If this woman is falsely rebuking the place of the man, surely she will and should be removed from her place of calling.
Love one another as Christ loved us.+++
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Insecurity is a real problem in the body of Christ!
@ White Horse
I never said God cannot anoint a woman. Have you never read that Sarah became beautiful by submitting to her husband? If a woman is annointed, she will be a daughter of Sarah. A daughter of Sarah will not reject the example Sarah has left behind. Neither will she want to commit the same sin that Eve committed.
Why do you twist my words? The law of Moses and the prophets and the new testament forbids a woman to have authority over men in the things of God. If you knowingly reject what the word teaches, you will end up destroying families and will be held responsible for the harm you have done.
I fear God more than you and your advice. Jesus Christ teaches the way of salvation and he teaches that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees we will in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven. If you want to teach people to tolerate Pharisees or tolerate "that woman Jezebel" that is your decision. As a brother I have testified to what I believe is right. If I don't testify to you then your blood is on my hands. I have spoken what the scripture teaches about women in the church. Now it is up to you to come to God yourself and seek wisdom on these things.
Furthermore. If someone believes in spiritual gifts and the writings of Paul to the Corinthians. They should earnestly desire spiritual gifts. But speaking from both sides of our mouth is a sin. Teaching people 1 Corinthians 12-14 and rejecting the words of the apostle Paul is hypocrisy. It is picking and choosing what you like from the bible and want you don't. How can you be a faithful minister of the word if you reject the apostle's teaching because you fear what everyone else is teaching and doing above what Christ's apostle's teach.
1 Corinthians 14:34
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
As for Galatians 3:28. The book of Galatians is written by a man. You will never find a book in the bible written by a woman. Jesus Christ is not a woman but a man. Man is made in the image of God and woman in the image of man.
All the godly women you find in holy scripture never rebuke, correct or train men of God. The holy women are examples of blessed women among women. A woman cannot bear the fruit of the womb (Jesus) if she is disobedient to God commandments. She must listen to Adam (submit to her husband in all things) unless she wants to fall under condemnation along with all the women in the churches who have lost their faith and are now pretending to be prophetesses. A true prophetess will teach younger women to be good houswives and submit to their husbands... in the presence of angels she testifies that she is subject to her husband (her head) She is the truly spiritual woman and very precious in the sight of God.
while I was still searching but not finding--I found one [upright] man among a thousand, but not one [upright] woman among them all. Ecclesiastes 7:28
If you are a woman and your heart is pricked by these words. Read the new testament epistles of Paul and Peter. Submit to your husband in all things as to the LORD. Learn obedience through what you suffer and you will experience the fears and confusion you have start to melt away. You will be given eye salve and healing through the Spirit of God.
1 Cor 11:4
Every man praying or prophesying, having the head covered, doth dishonour his head
If a man speaks in the church and does not show the world that he is head of his household he dishonours his own head. He dishonours himself. These men are falling into sexual immorality. These men love to counsel woman and be adored by women who are not their wives. They are encouraging women to become head of the household whether in churches or homes. These men never speak the words that Christ gave to Paul the apostle " I forbid a woman to teach or have authority over a man" and when they counsel women they side with the woman and commit sexual immorality with her. They never teach women that they learn obedience/increased faith by suffering for righteousness sake. The woman submits to the husband not because the husband is necessarily correct but because of her REVERENCE FOR CHRIST .Paul the apostle did not teach pastors to commit sexual immorality by appointing women pastors or deaconesses. Paul the apostle is greater than your pastor. In the church hierachy is first apostles THEN prophets. Listen to the living apostle before your pastor. DECIDE FOR YOURSELVES if the apostle Paul is mightier than your pastor or if your pastor is greater than the apostle Paul. The apostle Paul bears the marks of Jesus. The apostle advises the women as follows. 1 Cor 14:35
and if they wish to learn anything, at home their own husbands let them question, for it is a shame to women to speak in an assembly.
1 Cor 11:5
and every woman praying or prophesying with the head uncovered, doth dishonour her own head, for it is one and the same thing with her being shaven,
If you are a beautiful woman in the sight of God he will see you with lovely flowing hair but if you reject his teaching God sees you as a disgrace , as a bald woman. You may fool everyone and have outward braided hair, fake pearls of wisdom and expensive clothes but actually you are bald and naked in the sight of God and his holy angels. The men who join you by submitting to you and your so called gift of prophecy are now under a curse. They ministers become weak and will end up persecuting the men who teach righteousness, They fall under the yeast of Herod. Jesus said "BEWARE OF THE YEAST OF HEROD".. Go and read in the gospels what kind of weakness Herod had because he allowed a young girl to usurp his authority. Look what he did to God's great prophet who brought the Spirit of Elijah.
Christ is come to redeem us from the curse.
LET HIM WHO HAS EARS HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CHURCHES.
HEAR O ISRAEL.
Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols
I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.
So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds
Do not live in unbelief. Do not deceive yourselves. If you love your wife and families, then receive Paul the apostle as a truthful minister of the gospel.
You MALE genders are crazy,,, has the holy spirit convicted you of such bigotry ? It will be a lie !
Even in the Jewish history, they have JUDGES who are female. Remember DEBORAH ? Priestess like Elizabeth...If the Jewish tribes which are patriachal can submit to God's nomination of a woman JUDGE, what makes you think God cannot use women leaders nowadays ?
God is a God whose name is I AM. He evolves, he is in control of the past and of the future. He has total freedom to do whatever he wants and no one should put God in a box and frame it with history.
He wrote his-story...in the past and in the present and in the future however he wants.
God's principles of love, of truth and righteousness will not change. This is the unchanging God.
All other things, please...take a look at the world God made and the advances he allowed in medicine, in technology etc..You think we made all these with him ?..tell me if he not creative ! Our God is a master artist, scientist ...CREATOR !
Let God be GOD...Almighty. Always.
Here is where the bible talks about the patriarchs. The Apostle Paul is apostle to the Gentiles and wishes them to enjoy the promise of the Father. Whoever accepts his teaching, accepts Christ.
1 Peter 3
1Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
Will those who fear God and believe what the scripture says be condemned by God for having reverence and wanting to follow the example of the apostle Paul who has apostolic power to either build up or destroy? If Jesus teaches that we will have a great reward in heaven for righteousness sake, is following apostolic utterances righteousness? Or is it unrighteousness ? Should we persecute and reject the apostle Paul and those who hold his teachings as sacred? Notice at the end of these scriptures Paul tells us it is the LORD's command.
1 Cor 14.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored
Abraham is a Father to many nations. He is not a girl in a skirt overseeing men. I want to obey the Lord's commandments and follow the example of Abraham Romans 4:12 and teach women to follow the example of Sarah 1 Peter 3:6
If you love people, you will not want women to miscarriage and have problems with childbirth. You will not want to have the blood of unborn children on your hands. You decide how serious this is. Here is what the word of God says to us through 1 Timothy
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Those who have allowed women to usurp the authority of men of God have committed murder. You have murdered innocent children, destroyed families and through your hypocrisy have turned upside down the order God has given for families.
But God is merciful and full of grace and you can come to him to be forgiven of your sins. Come to him today with a truly sorrowful heart for partaking in wickedness.
If you are one who did not know what the apostle teaches and now that you know the scripture .. receive the apostles of Jesus Christ as greater authority than prophets . In the church hierachy it is first apostles, then prophets.
If you believe the Apostles are dead and have no say in church matters, then you deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ who is alive as are his apostles and as are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
For those who find repentance may God use you mightily to bind up wounds in your own families and the families of others. Peace be with you all.
Having said all the above , I feel that spiritually I have been unfair to Joseph. So, I also want to add as a final comment that I acknowledge that Joseph Prince is one of the most anointed spiritual men of faith I have ever met. God knows our hearts and he knows who loves him as a great brother in Christ and who does not.
Over the last few weeks I have decided to stop blogging like this simply because it is not face to face with the people and is unfair because if I was in his position I would not want people to do that to me. I guess my own sin is revealed and I repent before God and the church.
Enoch, I've read enough of all you lets demote and church women beneath us because we're males. Let me tell you something. God made Eve out of Adams rib. Not out of his feet for her to be crushed under him. Not out of his head to rule over him. Out of his side to be equal with him. Since you sat here and preached about the importance of the order God did things in I am sure you can agree with me on that. Women are not a lesser creation than man. They can be anointed by God to have leadership roles and to pastor and teach. Have you not read the old testament? Ruth, Deborah, Esther? Have you forgot about them? It is of the Enemy for you to preach that women be held down and put beneath men.
actually enoch you remind me of the pharisee that brought the adulteress woman before Jesus asking what to do with her. Caught her in the act, but did nothing with the man. She couldn't have committed adultery on her own, yet they left the man. Sounds like you, only attacking women. Man can do no wrong, unless he lets a woman preach in his church right? You're a sad little man Enoch.
Joseph Prince is speaking from a higher place.
Dear Enoch,
Points to ponder:
1. Paul the apostle says "I forbid a woman to teach or have authority over a man" Key word being "I". It does not say God forbids.
2. There is a passage where Paul's teachings completely contradicts what Jesus teaches.
Jesus in Matthew 6:5-6 and Paul in I Timothy 2:8.
Why? Because Paul (who was a converted Jew) was teaching converted Jews and was speaking to them in a way that was acceptable to them. This does not mean that Paul was never speaking for the Lord but if you read carefully he lets you know when it's his opinion, not God sent. It's not hypocrasy, it's speaking in a language where you will be understood.
3. And as was already stated, women are to cleave to their husband, not every man.
4.Jesus was God taught while on earth and Jesus had the ability to recognize the truth when he heard it. One of the TRUTHS opened to Jesus was through a woman:
Mt 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Mt 15:25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
Mt 15:26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
Mt 15:27 “Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”
Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Jesus knew in that moment he was here for everyone, not just the children of Israel.
5. Romans 14:1 says: Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
The question to a Christian might be are we Jewish? Are we still under Law or are we under Grace? If not a converted Jew but a Gentile, we were never truly under the Law. As long as a woman has the permission of her husband to preach or teach she is still submitting to the authority of her husband.
Last I would like to tell you I prophesy, I interpert dreams but I have to do it with my head covered (in humility, not from me)or through pride (with the vanity of lovely flowing hair) it will come to naught.
By the way Enoch, Thank you and Thank God because through you God has opened my eyes as to why no one ever listens to "me" when I prophesize. A few of the prophecies made 2 deaths, 1 heartache and one impending car accident.
Peace Be on this House, Alethea.
May God bless you all, in Jesus' name!
Enoch, you need to read your bible verses in context. The right context means that you read knowing who wrote or said those words, to whom and when and the community in which it was preached. In this case, Corinth, which was a place known for it's wild ways, disorderly conduct and widespread paganism.
It is true that everything has to be done in an orderly fashion, but the word of God also does say specifically that God will pour out His spirit upon people and both men and women will prophesy.
New International Version (©1984)
In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
Acts 2:17
Also, don't forget that it is through a woman, that Jesus was born. And through a woman that Jesus performed his first public miracle. Even though Jesus felt he was not ready yet, upon the urging of his mother, at the wedding at cana, John 2:1-11. Jesus listened and was obedient to his mother. That is the humility and example of the Son of God.
Overall, do read the gospels. Jesus loved women and also used many examples of women to illustrate his parables.
"The ones who proclaimed Jesus body was no longer in the tomb but has risen, were women. They announced and proclaimed the resurrection of Jesus to the male apostles.
Whether able to teach or preach in church or not according to Paul's opinion in the Corinthian context, women sure did play important roles in the Bible.
1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' " 8Then they remembered his words.
9When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened."
Luke 24: 1-12
Angels chose to appear to women, and in this case, chose women to be bearers of the important message of Jesus rising from the dead.
Do not let the devil decieve us any longer.
In Christ,
God bless.
Gospels first. Then all other books in the Bible. Gospels take centre place. They contain the words of our Lord. Jesus Christ.
Sola Scriptura and Biblical fundamentalism is very dangerous. It is misleading and can lead to discouragement and confusion.
Always remember, to read within context and with the proper interpretation and Biblical exegesis.
God bless everyone.
In Acts 18:24-28, an important evangelist in Ephesus named Apollos is mentioned as one who "taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the Way of God to him more accurately." Priscilla and Aquila were among the earliest known teachers of Christian theology.
In 1 Corinthians 16:19, Paul passes on the greetings of Priscilla and Aquila to their friends in Corinth, indicating that the couple were in his company. Paul founded the church in Corinth[citation needed]; including their greetings implies that Priscilla and Aquila were also involved in the founding of that church. Since 1 Corinthians discusses a crisis deriving from a conflict between the followers of Apollos and the followers of Cephas (possibly the apostle Peter), it can be inferred that Apollos accompanied Priscilla and Aquila when they returned to Corinth. This happened before 54, when Claudius died and the expulsion of the Jews from Rome was lifted.
In Romans 16:3-4, thought to have been written in 56 or 57, Paul sends his greetings to Priscilla and Aquila and notes that both of them "risked their necks" to save Paul's life.
(both posts on Priscilla taken from wiki)
Acts 18:26: He (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
They have been called the most famous couple in the Christian Bible since they are mentioned seven times, always as a couple and never individually. Of those seven times, five times Priscilla's name is mentioned first. According to the account in Acts, they corrected the faith of Apollos, an important preacher of the period.
Priscilla = a woman.
Cross references for Acts 18:26:
New Living Translation (©2007)
When Priscilla and Aquila heard him preaching boldly in the synagogue, they took him aside and explained the way of God even more accurately.
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New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
I was hoping that whoever owns this blog would take down my comments as I no longer wish to write anonymously about people but rather tell people face to face. The way I started off is not wise.
I feel now it is more manly to confront others face to face on these matters and avoiding saying things behind people's backs . It is wrong to gossip (part of gossip is not confronting the person face to face) and is not a manly thing to do but it a weakness mainly of women and since I have been complaining about silly women, I don't want to become one myself. I admit I have been a hypocrite on this blog.
More power to you all and especially Joseph Prince.
Enoch, men and women both have weaknesses. Nobody is perfect.
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New International Version (©1984)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28
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If we have been clothed in Christ, there is really no male or female, according to Galatians above.
Yes, at a human level, males and females are different with different functions... God values them all as his precious creation.
As women can be silly, so can men. Not all males have the same level of intelligence in the natural.
It is a sin to be sexist and preach it as the ultimate in God's unchanging truths.
Of all the gifts that God gave to humans, they all pass or fade away in time, but LOVE is the greatest and will always remain.
Love is greater than intelligence or silliness or gender.
Enoch, lastly, the bible does encourage one to take care of WIDOWS. Do you?
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New International Version (©1984)
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 1:27
I am so sorry Enoch, I did not want to come across like I was condemning you and for that I apologize. The problem with not talking to a person face to face is that we can't see each other's sincerity and care. I don't know what you have had to deal with through your journey so again I'm sorry.
I have one posting here under anonymous but I did sign it at the bottom of my posting.
Take care and all the best, Alethea.
God bless in Jesus' name.
@ ENOCH- YOU ARE DISGUSTING AND MISGUIDED MAN. You have NO IDEA who Christ is or what the Word of God is all about.
You and almost everyone on this board are bound by falsities. You are who Jesus was talking about when he said "Not all that say Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven"
Calling woman disgraceful. Half of his ministry was about woman and their freedom.
CHEW ON THAT!
Enoch.. I will pray for you, that is if you allow me too and if not I still will.
In Christ love Rev.Jennifer
Enoch,
You are a complete moron. I don't even know where to begin answering your error, with respect to women in leadership. So what I would strongly suggest that you actually listen to Pastor Prince and I promise your attitude will change.
yours in Christ
All the negative remarks here about New Creation Church are FALSE. It's not a church that goes after money although in every church there are people who are still not producing the fruit of the Spirit. Of course, not everybody walks at the same pace when it comes to faith. But to label NCC as a church that is only concerned about money is totally wrong! And to that person who said that his/her friend died unhealed and feeling condemned, then the problem was with her, not Pastor PRince nor any of his teachings. There was soemthing wrong with the way she interpreted the gospel.
I've been a member of NCC for almost 4yrs now since I worked in Siingapore and Pastor Prince message of GRACE has completely freed me from the bondage of sin and it has enabled me to walk righteously by the grace of God. Been to other church before where law was preached more and I just felt inadequate, more condemned. Only the gospel of grace has truly set me free and has enabled me to die from my sins. Thank God he gave us Pastor Prince to preach His gospel of grace!
Sorry guys I will have to side with Enoch. He has perfectly and inductively presented the patriarchs views and the apostle Paul's view in terms of men's headship.
As a Psychologist working among 12 prisons in my country I have acknowledged the relevancy of the wisdom of the scriptures. The issue on men's headship is an issue not only known in our faith but known in our cultures (this knowledge was dispersed at the tower of babel). Thats why Enoch was accurate in saying that women is the glory of men....in the sense that her glory is projected through her submission to him. Whereas men's glory is in God. His glory projected by the mandate to lead the extension of his kingdom on earth. This has nothing to do with sexism. Through the male species God has established his authority on earth (headship). Through the female species he teaches submission to his authority which he has given to the men (which is God's and not the men's to flaunt)
Every culture on this earth knows this fact. Lets look at Titus 2:4b-5.Older women to teach younger women to submit to their husbands.....That the word of God may not be blasphemed among the ungodly (the ungodly understands this principle.
Check this quotation out....
“The practical worth of a religion is not unfairly estimated by its effects on the lives of those who profess it. If the observed effect of the Gospel were to make women worse wives, it would not commend it to the heathen.” (White)
Therefore as I said earlier headship is relevant to my work where I have seen families and churches heal when women and men of God have led lives that portrayed the roles God has given them. When men lead they pronounce the authority of God to the ungodly that there is a authority from heaven that will one day pronounce Godly judgement on all ungodliness on earth. When women submit they reaffirm Jesus ministry to submit (unlike Satan) to his father's authority in which we experience the richness of Grace where he voluntary places his body on the line for our sake.
We now know in Psychology the damage and consequences when headship is removed from any society and where women under this headships become vulnerable when their covering is removed. E.g Research shows that men involved in enticing young females in joining the sex trade and human trafficking choose only a particular type of girl..." A girl who has no father" is vulnerable to men's advances portraying a father like figure.
So please it is important to listen to the apostle Paul as he continues to hammer away with creating a Holy Community of believers that will shed light on unbelievers by the way we have our family. Most women who hate the idea of submission are usually lonely and bitter while men who abuse their authority without love are frustrated and angry with the world.There is so much written by Paul on headship that we can't just dispose of because we live in a modern time where we believe and misrepresent the idea that equality even refers to the different office that God has given through our sexes.
In closing, a Christians worldview should always be apposed to that of the world. So if headship is not popular....then we must be heading in the right direction...
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Women are one of the greatest teachers. The car your driving may have just been built by a woman! Better yet your heart surgeon might just be a woman.If it wasn't for the woman the man who calls himself our Savior would not be your Savior.Thank her for giving birth to you! She must of taught you something..God bless and may he have Mercy on me. Sign Mary and no the mother of JESUS. Just Mary
God sinned in the Garden first which why he came in the flesh to destroy the works of his creation flesh.He created sin the serpent which gave birth to you and I. For Jesus to redeem us back to God.Not sure why only he knows his actions.No man or woman can say they know God. Only the son can reveal that. Sin came from creation please let us not give rebirth to eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. So help me God that HE knows me. Who does God portray himself to be. For He himself as he or she.It is written let us make man in our image male and female let us make him. HIM is who knows all things.God bless Amen. Mary
Did your Mother teach you how to fornicate. Again I say GOD creates all things.Clean and unclean if there is one spirit that gives many gifts all from the same spirit. Which spirit gave Adam the gift of breath.?Better yet which spirit saif I put before you cursing and blessing? Must be the same spirit which was in darkness and said Let there be light. The same spirit that created the serpent which influenced the woman to share with her husband is the same who created Jesus. He comes from a sinful nation. His whole family. Which is exactly what she the female still is doing. Man has the same free will that women have.
I don't believe she died in condemnation. She was in a rest with Jesus. God knows who caused her to think that way. It is not a seed which Jesus watered. She was not being condemned. God has mercy on whom ever he has Mercy.Grace is grace. Mercy is Mercy.Her Grace is in Heaven!
The beginning of wisdom is fearing the Lord. Amen. :)
It is unfortunate that in this day and age with so many teaching tools and churches on every corner there are still some that are the blind leading the blind. The bible must be taking in context in every book, chapter and verse. To say that a woman cannot preach or teach is absurd and would make the bible itself a lie. It was to the Corinthians. To say that my neighbor does not allow his daughter to cut the grass so I and all our other neighbors should not allow our daughters to cut grass is basically what you are saying. So then you must be on the weekends killing witches because the bible says dont suffer them to live. Hope your son never disrespected you because you would be charged with murder right now. You cannot take certain scriptures and wear them about your neck and ignore clothing yourself with others. If God could use a donkey to talk,he can use a women. If the rocks can be made to cry out for Christ, then unless we are nothing in Gods eyes then I am sure a woman can proclaim as well. There are many examples of biblical women God used given by many here and I hope you are not only reading but listening. To those that called you names because of your misguided opinion, shame on you. Christ said with loving kindness has he drawn us and with the same we should draw others. I pray you all blessings and peace on this controversial subject, so long debated and forever will be. God bless. Pastor Laura
Enoch,
Stand strong! You are right.
if the book of corinthians and Timothy were written only to apply to them, why are they in the Bible?
That scripture is talking about salvation .you must read the whole chapter
Wow! Have we really come down to this? Even Peter said that our "brother Paul" wrote things that were sometimes hard to understand. I must confess that some of the things that Paul wrote about leave me confused, but this I know: he had a revelation of our heavenly Father's unmerited favor that few, if any, of the other apostles of his day shared. If Paul were here,in the flesh, today, I find it very hard to believe that he would be condemning Joyce Meyers or any other Holy Spirit filled child of the most high, thrice holy God, who happens to be of the female persuasion, who is actively and ardently allowing the Holy Spirit to use them as vessels to successfully build the kingdom, reconcile relationships, exhort the body, edify the body, admonish the body,etc...etc! I say "judge a tree by it's fruits", and "thank God" for all of my sisters in Christ, and "hallelujah" for all my sisters in Christ who operate in the gifts of the Spirit rather than surrender to a spirit of fear! I can hear Jesus now, talking to Joyce Meyers, at the judgment seat, "shame on you young lady! How dare you allow my Spirit to lead thousand of sheep to me! No rewards for you! Now go to your room without supper!"
This is for Mary. I know that you believe that God sinned in the garden, but believe me, "God doesn't sin!" Jesus knew no son (2Cor. 5:21). God's creations, on the other hand, seem to have a knack for it. Free choice has always been the avenue from which sin has entered. Satan had a choice, and Adam had a choice...God neither sinned, nor created sin, rather, He created beings who chose to sin. Have you received God's free gift of righteousness by confessing Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Do you believe that He exchanged places with you on the cross, that all of your sins were judged, condemned and punished in Him on the cross? Have you committed your life to Him as your King, Savior and Lord? If you answered yes to these questions, then you have all the mercy from your heavenly Abba that you will ever need! You can have absolute boldness as you go to the day of judgment, because "as Jesus is, so are you in this world" (1John 4:17). His mercy sent Jesus to us. His righteousness punished our sins in Jesus on the cross. His grace saved us. Hallelujah!!!
to all who take pleasure in lambasting Pastor Prince: False teachers of the gospel have one thing in common...they all tend to de-deify Jesus Christ and minimize His amazing grace. The one thing that pastor Prince never does is de-deify Jesus Christ! I don't think I have heard anyone glorify God by exalting Jesus as much as Joseph Prince does. Is He spot on 100% of the time? Propably not. Who is? Joseph is the righteousness of God, but he is not God...just ask him, I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you so. My two cents says he's right the vast majority of the time. The fact that he sees Jesus as the perfect sacrifice, and His work as a "finished work", instead of seeing Jesus as just a "glorified goat" is fine by me. The fact that he believes that being "Christ occupied" and operating in the "newness of the Spirit" is more effective than being "self occupied in the "oldness of the letter" by focusing on "the ministry of death and condemnation" is fine by me as well. The fact he spends most of his time revealing "the glory of the Lord to us so that we might be transformed into the same image from glory to glory as by the Holy Spirit" is ok by me too! Come to think of it, the fact that my life has changed so radically for Christ because of his teachings is down right awesome. Thank you pastor Prince for not being ashamed of the gospel of God's unmerited favor and for realizing that it is the " power of God to salvation for everyone who believes".
I wish Enoch would shut up. He doesn't know or understand the scriptures and he is a mysogynist. His condescending and disrespectful attitudes toward women are disgusting.
I wish Enoch would shut up. He doesn't know or understand the scriptures and he is a mysogynist. His condescending and disrespectful attitudes toward women are disgusting.
Joseph Prince rarely teaches on prosperity. He's biggest calling is teaching people about the grace of God.
Enoch is a modern day Pharisee, if you're always looking at the unlawful "MAT" that people carries around, you will miss out on God's all encompassing love. And I don't understand the hate on "prosperity" when in heaven you'll be walking on STREETS OF GOLD.
Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the LAW FORBIDS you to carry your mat.” But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”
Jesus said to him, “If I want him to stay alive until I come [again], WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? YOU FOLLOW ME!”
Jesus DID say that many false teachers will come forth in His Name and will show "signs & wonders". Many of these will try to deceive even the very elect. Joseph Prince is not faulty. Its what he preaches that falls short. Divine Grace is universal to everyone on Earth. Unconditional Love has NO barriers and no departments. Christ loves the devout Hindu & Buddhist as much as the devout Christian for example. All people are created in God's Image. Not Christians only. J.Prince is not error free. He too is human like everybody else.
A big multimillion dollar church is NOT needed to speak about the Word of God. It is our hearts & minds that God wants to speak to.
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